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Hypothesis Ramosior & the Droop
*This was an experiment I ran back in 2020 that I still believe has some helpful qualities to it. Especially as more and more people get their hands on plants such as Florida and Sunset. I state many times that I might not be right, this was just something that worked FOR ME. I show the pictures of the progress each plant made. It would be fun to get feed back on how you guys are taking care of this species in your own ways. I do plan on owning both of these plants eventually and have every intention to run this again. I hope you guys enjoy this!
I’d Like to first start off by simply saying that this was just an experiment that I decided to test out. At the time of this experiment I was in the hobby for about 1 year and 7 months: Take this info as you wish. I am not claiming this to be a solution of any sort, there are people that have been around a lot longer than I have that might have a better hypothesis or understanding. When I first began to put thought into this I thought to myself “No way, you’re wrong … but what if you’re right?” (Yes it was one of those kind of things) This is just my theory on what might cause the infamous droop syndrome so many have experienced.
The motivation for this small experiment was because there’s no worse feeling than looking into your tank and seeing your beloved, favorite, and typically expensive (at the time) Ramosior species with drooping leaves. I remember seeing this happen to my first round of Florida I owned, one stem had drooping leaves and I slowly watched it dwindle away. I thought “No big deal it was just an unhealthy stem” not ever expecting to lose every single stem with in the next 3 days. Yes… a total of 20+ stems GONE just like that. Not to mention I paid about $110 for 8 stem back then. haha. They stuck around for about 3 months before catching the ‘droop’.
So what am I talking about for those that aren’t familiar: With Ramosior species there seems to be a time where the plant will droop its leaves, in my case it started with one stem, then 2 more… then 3 more… then, they all melted away without a trace. literally. I woke up, checked the tank and $110 was gone before my eyes. From discussing with others that have had this issue no body can seem to put a finger on what exactly it could be. (Maybe someone today has figured it out) Is there a TIMELINE on when to expect it? No. Could certain SUBSTRATES cause it? Possibly. Co2 issues? Dosing issues? Some strange disease that develops with in the plants? Who knows. All I can say is here’s what I came up with.
7 months ago I decided to give Florida a try again. I started with 5 Stems and focused on trying to keep them as healthy as possible as long as possible, I was giving myself 3 months to see if they get the Droop:
Original 5 Stems: November 14th 2019
Here is what those 5 stems grew to in 2 months January 16th 2020
That same bunch 3 months after planting: February 21st 2020
Right around that time I started to work with Rotala Ramosior Sunset which i was told was a much more pickier plant than Florida. (As you can see in the last picture) At this point I was going on 4 months with Florida and hadn’t lost a single stem to melting or to drooping leaves. Sunset was around for about 3 weeks and as you can tell by the picture was in rough shape.
(Here is where it got interesting for me)
Not really knowing what made Florida stick around so long I started back tracking on how I was caring for the plant. Everything in my tank at this time was being Topped, I would trim the plant and toss the bottoms. This is where I stumbled on something… As I started to focus more on growing Sunset I noticed something about Sunset that was different from my Florida. Florida was being topped once a week. Sunset was never topped or trimmed, I just wanted it to grow. I decided to up root the Sunset and noticed that the bottom of the stems were black, Compared to the Florida which was whitish yellow. Unfortunately I don’t have pictures of them from this time (I know, this is why I’d be discredited in a legit lab lol) but this is where I noticed a difference. Keep this in mind. Here are pictures of the progress Sunset had when I decided to treat it just like Florida and top it once a week, sometimes even twice a week. Pay attention to the Sunset which is in the Center of the tank just to the left of Florida, then will end up to the far left.
February 22nd 2020
March 1st 2020
March 10th 2020
March 23rd 2020
March 30th 2020
April 9th 2020
At this time I decided to run a short experiment. Hoping it would show some results… Now I did only use Florida for this test, however keep in mind that I still continue to top my Sunset once a week.
So let’s dive back into the black rotting at the bottom of the Sunset before topping it. I noticed that Florida never dealt with this issue because I was always topping all of my plants at least once a week, that was just my maintenance routine. When I planted sunset I didn’t touch it for almost 3 weeks thinking it would grow but it was struggling more than anything. Pale color, Not many side shoots, and overall didn’t look healthy. As you can see from the picture above when I started topping it, it grew faster with 3–4 side shoots on each stem, had beautiful color, and looked healthy for the most part.
April 14th I set up a second tank with the exact same conditions I had in the tank pictured above. (I decided to use Millers Micro-complex instead of mixing my own micros: call it laziness) I took 3 sets of Florida, the first stems (Group 1) I didn’t top at all, second (Group 2) I would top only 3 times over the span of the experiment. Which was conducted over about a 6–7 week time frame. The last set (Group 3) I topped once a week. Here is why I think this is important for Ramosior Species.
Pay attention to how rotted the bottom of the stems are compared to the ones that were topped 3 times and the ones that were topped every week.
Below is Group 1 which was never topped through out the experiment:
Now here is the Second group. Again pay attention to the Bottoms, as well as size difference:
With group two I noticed some rotting towards the bottoms but overall they had decent growth and were much healthy than Group 1 by a long shot. Here’s a side by side comparison:
Now, Here is the growth of Group 3 which was topped every week during the length of the experiment:
Group 3 had thicker stems larger roots, and grew beautiful round leaves, better color and had no rotting at the bottom.
Here is a comparison between Group 2 and Group 3:
And finally, a picture of all groups: Left: Group 1 — Middle: Group 2 — Right: Group 3
*To also note, these were set up in a fairly new tank a the time. It was up and running for about 2 weeks before i threw the plants into the tank. There was a lot for them to adapt to for sure.
So what's the theory? Well, at the time i had Florida growing consistently for 7 months and not a single stem catching the dreaded Droop. (Nov. 14th — June 1st) Sunset had exploded for me at the time with more stems than I thought I’d be able to grow (More pic’s later) Now again, this is just a theory, so please keep that in mind. Working with Ramosior for these months I believe they enjoy rotting from the bottom up… why does that matter? Well, because they rot underneath the substrate, where you would never be able to notice it.
Ramosiors have an inner stem like core, it’s harder than the out side of the plant. If you take your finger nail and run it down the stem barely scratching the outer surface you will see this inner stem that I’m talking about… I’m honestly not sure what to call it. I believe this inner stem acts as a “membrane” for the plant… keeping it healthy. When rotting begins to occur at the bottom of the stem, these membrane like stems begin to rot as well not being able to keep the plant as healthy as possible. Avoid the Rot, Avoid the droop. So where does the droop come into play? I think where we are going wrong with these plants is trimming them and trying to propagate the tops as well as keeping the bottoms. Growing these plants out to be too tall, giving them the time to rot from the bottom.
When rotting occurs for too long, I believe the inner core becomes unhealthy and begins to rot behind the outer stem that we see. As we continue to propagate side shoots and tops from the already unhealthy bottoms, the inner core like stem continues to be unhealthy and rot… Eventually Leading to the drooping leaves which will then lead to stems melting. Now the only part I’m stuck on is why they would all decide to melt at the same time. Thinking back on when my Florida Drooped the first time, I never cut the stems, I was too afraid to. I would only cut side shoots and replant them. Which would make sense as to why they all melted at the same time. I was taking shoots off of an unhealthy plant (Think inner stem here) and planting it. All of my stems where unhealthy at that point… think of it as a disease almost. Once the main stem has it… so do the side shoots. Nothing, and I mean absolutely nothing you can do about it. This would explain why even those that took the stems out of the tank and put them into another tank were still experiencing drooping right after one stem got it. If you experience a stem that droops, it’s only a matter of time before all of the others droop.
The conclusion? I truly believe that if you are able to keep the bottoms from rotting by continuously topping the Ramosior species (Florida, Sunset, Cramer) it could give you a very good chance of preventing the Droop Syndrome. Again, I’m no expert, I’m only speaking from experience here…and 7 months with out any drooping is twice as long as I was able to keep it the first time.
By no means am I saying this is the answer to this strange event… or that I’ve even come close to figuring it out. One thing is for sure, it grows really nice stems! for 6 weeks I’ve topped sunset every week. Here’s what it produced, mind you this is just out of my “farm” tank.
Now I had mentioned something way earlier in this post about how substrate may possibly matter when it comes to The Droop. I also mentioned how this was still an on going experiment. All of these stems were grown in Black Diamond Blasting sand and theres a theory out there that Ramosior Sunset doesn't do well in Aquasoil, so to be fair, I recently switched my main tank to Landens Aquasoil to test this with Sunset as well. With about a month into it being in Aquasoil it's not doing so bad. I plan on certainly updating this post after time goes on.
Now to conclude this, I stopped running this experiment as I got busier with work during summer months and was not doing much husbandry to the tank. With fresh soil, few water changes, and little care, algae crept in and I ended up moving the sunset to the "farm tank" getting it healthy and selling it all to focus on more of a "Dutch style" tank at the time. Both of my entire groups of Florida and sunset were eventually sold off and never seen again in this tank. haha.
This was a very fun thing to perform with two amazing plants in this hobby. they are both stunning when grown healthy. This was my second time caring for Florida and my first time growing sunset. I was lucky enough to keep Florida around for almost 2 years and sunset for a solid 14 months. I had no issues trimming either plant using the "topping" method, and even moved them around frequently. Over gown farm tanks with them in it and had them survive that tank with almost 2 weeks of no water changes... I never had an issue with either.
Now, this could have certainly been luck, or maybe at the time I was too green to know that I was actually doing something simple or "standard" for these species. I never wanted to be right - I just wanted to help others keep these plants around a whole lot longer than I was able to the first time. There's nothing like getting to show off a beautiful group of Ramosior's in your aquarium!
Thank you for Reading!
I’d Like to first start off by simply saying that this was just an experiment that I decided to test out. At the time of this experiment I was in the hobby for about 1 year and 7 months: Take this info as you wish. I am not claiming this to be a solution of any sort, there are people that have been around a lot longer than I have that might have a better hypothesis or understanding. When I first began to put thought into this I thought to myself “No way, you’re wrong … but what if you’re right?” (Yes it was one of those kind of things) This is just my theory on what might cause the infamous droop syndrome so many have experienced.
The motivation for this small experiment was because there’s no worse feeling than looking into your tank and seeing your beloved, favorite, and typically expensive (at the time) Ramosior species with drooping leaves. I remember seeing this happen to my first round of Florida I owned, one stem had drooping leaves and I slowly watched it dwindle away. I thought “No big deal it was just an unhealthy stem” not ever expecting to lose every single stem with in the next 3 days. Yes… a total of 20+ stems GONE just like that. Not to mention I paid about $110 for 8 stem back then. haha. They stuck around for about 3 months before catching the ‘droop’.
So what am I talking about for those that aren’t familiar: With Ramosior species there seems to be a time where the plant will droop its leaves, in my case it started with one stem, then 2 more… then 3 more… then, they all melted away without a trace. literally. I woke up, checked the tank and $110 was gone before my eyes. From discussing with others that have had this issue no body can seem to put a finger on what exactly it could be. (Maybe someone today has figured it out) Is there a TIMELINE on when to expect it? No. Could certain SUBSTRATES cause it? Possibly. Co2 issues? Dosing issues? Some strange disease that develops with in the plants? Who knows. All I can say is here’s what I came up with.
7 months ago I decided to give Florida a try again. I started with 5 Stems and focused on trying to keep them as healthy as possible as long as possible, I was giving myself 3 months to see if they get the Droop:
Original 5 Stems: November 14th 2019
Here is what those 5 stems grew to in 2 months January 16th 2020
That same bunch 3 months after planting: February 21st 2020
Right around that time I started to work with Rotala Ramosior Sunset which i was told was a much more pickier plant than Florida. (As you can see in the last picture) At this point I was going on 4 months with Florida and hadn’t lost a single stem to melting or to drooping leaves. Sunset was around for about 3 weeks and as you can tell by the picture was in rough shape.
(Here is where it got interesting for me)
Not really knowing what made Florida stick around so long I started back tracking on how I was caring for the plant. Everything in my tank at this time was being Topped, I would trim the plant and toss the bottoms. This is where I stumbled on something… As I started to focus more on growing Sunset I noticed something about Sunset that was different from my Florida. Florida was being topped once a week. Sunset was never topped or trimmed, I just wanted it to grow. I decided to up root the Sunset and noticed that the bottom of the stems were black, Compared to the Florida which was whitish yellow. Unfortunately I don’t have pictures of them from this time (I know, this is why I’d be discredited in a legit lab lol) but this is where I noticed a difference. Keep this in mind. Here are pictures of the progress Sunset had when I decided to treat it just like Florida and top it once a week, sometimes even twice a week. Pay attention to the Sunset which is in the Center of the tank just to the left of Florida, then will end up to the far left.
February 22nd 2020
March 1st 2020
March 10th 2020
March 23rd 2020
March 30th 2020
April 9th 2020
At this time I decided to run a short experiment. Hoping it would show some results… Now I did only use Florida for this test, however keep in mind that I still continue to top my Sunset once a week.
So let’s dive back into the black rotting at the bottom of the Sunset before topping it. I noticed that Florida never dealt with this issue because I was always topping all of my plants at least once a week, that was just my maintenance routine. When I planted sunset I didn’t touch it for almost 3 weeks thinking it would grow but it was struggling more than anything. Pale color, Not many side shoots, and overall didn’t look healthy. As you can see from the picture above when I started topping it, it grew faster with 3–4 side shoots on each stem, had beautiful color, and looked healthy for the most part.
April 14th I set up a second tank with the exact same conditions I had in the tank pictured above. (I decided to use Millers Micro-complex instead of mixing my own micros: call it laziness) I took 3 sets of Florida, the first stems (Group 1) I didn’t top at all, second (Group 2) I would top only 3 times over the span of the experiment. Which was conducted over about a 6–7 week time frame. The last set (Group 3) I topped once a week. Here is why I think this is important for Ramosior Species.
Pay attention to how rotted the bottom of the stems are compared to the ones that were topped 3 times and the ones that were topped every week.
Below is Group 1 which was never topped through out the experiment:
Now here is the Second group. Again pay attention to the Bottoms, as well as size difference:
With group two I noticed some rotting towards the bottoms but overall they had decent growth and were much healthy than Group 1 by a long shot. Here’s a side by side comparison:
Now, Here is the growth of Group 3 which was topped every week during the length of the experiment:
Group 3 had thicker stems larger roots, and grew beautiful round leaves, better color and had no rotting at the bottom.
Here is a comparison between Group 2 and Group 3:
And finally, a picture of all groups: Left: Group 1 — Middle: Group 2 — Right: Group 3
*To also note, these were set up in a fairly new tank a the time. It was up and running for about 2 weeks before i threw the plants into the tank. There was a lot for them to adapt to for sure.
So what's the theory? Well, at the time i had Florida growing consistently for 7 months and not a single stem catching the dreaded Droop. (Nov. 14th — June 1st) Sunset had exploded for me at the time with more stems than I thought I’d be able to grow (More pic’s later) Now again, this is just a theory, so please keep that in mind. Working with Ramosior for these months I believe they enjoy rotting from the bottom up… why does that matter? Well, because they rot underneath the substrate, where you would never be able to notice it.
Ramosiors have an inner stem like core, it’s harder than the out side of the plant. If you take your finger nail and run it down the stem barely scratching the outer surface you will see this inner stem that I’m talking about… I’m honestly not sure what to call it. I believe this inner stem acts as a “membrane” for the plant… keeping it healthy. When rotting begins to occur at the bottom of the stem, these membrane like stems begin to rot as well not being able to keep the plant as healthy as possible. Avoid the Rot, Avoid the droop. So where does the droop come into play? I think where we are going wrong with these plants is trimming them and trying to propagate the tops as well as keeping the bottoms. Growing these plants out to be too tall, giving them the time to rot from the bottom.
When rotting occurs for too long, I believe the inner core becomes unhealthy and begins to rot behind the outer stem that we see. As we continue to propagate side shoots and tops from the already unhealthy bottoms, the inner core like stem continues to be unhealthy and rot… Eventually Leading to the drooping leaves which will then lead to stems melting. Now the only part I’m stuck on is why they would all decide to melt at the same time. Thinking back on when my Florida Drooped the first time, I never cut the stems, I was too afraid to. I would only cut side shoots and replant them. Which would make sense as to why they all melted at the same time. I was taking shoots off of an unhealthy plant (Think inner stem here) and planting it. All of my stems where unhealthy at that point… think of it as a disease almost. Once the main stem has it… so do the side shoots. Nothing, and I mean absolutely nothing you can do about it. This would explain why even those that took the stems out of the tank and put them into another tank were still experiencing drooping right after one stem got it. If you experience a stem that droops, it’s only a matter of time before all of the others droop.
The conclusion? I truly believe that if you are able to keep the bottoms from rotting by continuously topping the Ramosior species (Florida, Sunset, Cramer) it could give you a very good chance of preventing the Droop Syndrome. Again, I’m no expert, I’m only speaking from experience here…and 7 months with out any drooping is twice as long as I was able to keep it the first time.
By no means am I saying this is the answer to this strange event… or that I’ve even come close to figuring it out. One thing is for sure, it grows really nice stems! for 6 weeks I’ve topped sunset every week. Here’s what it produced, mind you this is just out of my “farm” tank.
Now I had mentioned something way earlier in this post about how substrate may possibly matter when it comes to The Droop. I also mentioned how this was still an on going experiment. All of these stems were grown in Black Diamond Blasting sand and theres a theory out there that Ramosior Sunset doesn't do well in Aquasoil, so to be fair, I recently switched my main tank to Landens Aquasoil to test this with Sunset as well. With about a month into it being in Aquasoil it's not doing so bad. I plan on certainly updating this post after time goes on.
Now to conclude this, I stopped running this experiment as I got busier with work during summer months and was not doing much husbandry to the tank. With fresh soil, few water changes, and little care, algae crept in and I ended up moving the sunset to the "farm tank" getting it healthy and selling it all to focus on more of a "Dutch style" tank at the time. Both of my entire groups of Florida and sunset were eventually sold off and never seen again in this tank. haha.
This was a very fun thing to perform with two amazing plants in this hobby. they are both stunning when grown healthy. This was my second time caring for Florida and my first time growing sunset. I was lucky enough to keep Florida around for almost 2 years and sunset for a solid 14 months. I had no issues trimming either plant using the "topping" method, and even moved them around frequently. Over gown farm tanks with them in it and had them survive that tank with almost 2 weeks of no water changes... I never had an issue with either.
Now, this could have certainly been luck, or maybe at the time I was too green to know that I was actually doing something simple or "standard" for these species. I never wanted to be right - I just wanted to help others keep these plants around a whole lot longer than I was able to the first time. There's nothing like getting to show off a beautiful group of Ramosior's in your aquarium!
Thank you for Reading!
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I Donated 2026
Rockstar
Journal Attempting a True Dutch
This tank was a Dutch-ish tank before we moved 2 months ago. This was one of its last pictures, very overgrown I know.
This time I want to make it a true Dutch, so anyone can chime in and help me.
After we moved, it ran low-tech with just a few tissue cultures until this week when I finally had time and materials to finish setting it up. This is what it looks like now:
I know there’s some bubbles showing in the vinyl cling. I’m having trouble reaching back there to smooth it out. I’ll have to think about how to fix that, although when the plants grow in it may not be visible anyway. I did read that you can have 1 rock in a Dutch scape, so I kept one. I may put Monte Carlo on it again, I haven’t decided.
So, details…
Tank: UNS 90U, 68 gallons
Light: Week Aqua P900 Pro, current settings R 40%, G 51%, B 20%, UV 0, Fan 100, Power 51%.
8 hours of light with 30 min ramp up/down
Par—no idea
Filtration: Fluval Fx4, currently running at 75%. Any higher blows the fish around. I expect to be able to increase it when the plants are grown in.
CO2: Yugang stainless steel reactor, 370 mm long, working really well. I had to turn down the CO2 a bit today because the drop was more than I expected (from degassed 7.4 to 5.9). I’ve already changed the end cap to the medium setting, but I think I’m just going to make further adjustments with the regulator. Call it laziness, but since there aren’t any double taps available for the Fx4 tubing that’s going to be easier for me. Anyway, I really like it. It’s completely silent and does its job well.
Substrate: Aqua Natural Galaxy sand, with a few Aquarium Coop root tabs.
Other: Oase CrystalSkim 350 skimmer, Kactoily 6-in-1 water quality monitor
Fertilizer: Until today I’ve just been using Easy Green. Today I installed the Chihiro’s dosing system with PPS-Pro, 6 ml macros and 3 ml micros daily. On water change day, I’ll add another 2 ml macros. I’m currently changing 20% of the water once a week. I’ll increase if necessary.
Parameters: Ammonia and Nitrite 0, Nitrate 10 ppm, gH 6, kH 2, TDS 222, 70-74 F
Plants (mostly from @Burr740 thanks!):
Leopard Val
Echinodorus Aflame
Hydrocotyle Tripartita (coming)
Penthorum Sedioides
Crypt Wendtii Sindoor
Lobelia cardinalis mini
Bacopa colorata
Rotala (? back left corner)
Limnophila wilsonii
Nymphae Peru Puerto Maldonade
Rotala macrandra Kochi
Nymphoides Taiwan
I’m not sure I like the Leopard Val in there. Should I put it in my 125 gallon instead, and move the Limnophila wilsonii to that spot?
Fish:
1 Honey Flame Gourami
4 Ember tetras
8 Otos
2 Pygmy sunfish
4 Red neon blue-eyed rainbowfish
9 Pygmy Cory catfish
9 male Lime Green Endlers
1 Leopard Danio (last of a group)
A few random Amano and Neocaridina shrimp and snails
The fish list will change as I get more tanks set up. I would like to end up with just the gourami, Otos, Rainbowfish (but more of them), and Pygmy Cories.
Well, that’s a start. Thanks for reading!
This time I want to make it a true Dutch, so anyone can chime in and help me.
After we moved, it ran low-tech with just a few tissue cultures until this week when I finally had time and materials to finish setting it up. This is what it looks like now:
I know there’s some bubbles showing in the vinyl cling. I’m having trouble reaching back there to smooth it out. I’ll have to think about how to fix that, although when the plants grow in it may not be visible anyway. I did read that you can have 1 rock in a Dutch scape, so I kept one. I may put Monte Carlo on it again, I haven’t decided.
So, details…
Tank: UNS 90U, 68 gallons
Light: Week Aqua P900 Pro, current settings R 40%, G 51%, B 20%, UV 0, Fan 100, Power 51%.
8 hours of light with 30 min ramp up/down
Par—no idea
Filtration: Fluval Fx4, currently running at 75%. Any higher blows the fish around. I expect to be able to increase it when the plants are grown in.
CO2: Yugang stainless steel reactor, 370 mm long, working really well. I had to turn down the CO2 a bit today because the drop was more than I expected (from degassed 7.4 to 5.9). I’ve already changed the end cap to the medium setting, but I think I’m just going to make further adjustments with the regulator. Call it laziness, but since there aren’t any double taps available for the Fx4 tubing that’s going to be easier for me. Anyway, I really like it. It’s completely silent and does its job well.
Substrate: Aqua Natural Galaxy sand, with a few Aquarium Coop root tabs.
Other: Oase CrystalSkim 350 skimmer, Kactoily 6-in-1 water quality monitor
Fertilizer: Until today I’ve just been using Easy Green. Today I installed the Chihiro’s dosing system with PPS-Pro, 6 ml macros and 3 ml micros daily. On water change day, I’ll add another 2 ml macros. I’m currently changing 20% of the water once a week. I’ll increase if necessary.
Parameters: Ammonia and Nitrite 0, Nitrate 10 ppm, gH 6, kH 2, TDS 222, 70-74 F
Plants (mostly from @Burr740 thanks!):
Leopard Val
Echinodorus Aflame
Hydrocotyle Tripartita (coming)
Penthorum Sedioides
Crypt Wendtii Sindoor
Lobelia cardinalis mini
Bacopa colorata
Rotala (? back left corner)
Limnophila wilsonii
Nymphae Peru Puerto Maldonade
Rotala macrandra Kochi
Nymphoides Taiwan
I’m not sure I like the Leopard Val in there. Should I put it in my 125 gallon instead, and move the Limnophila wilsonii to that spot?
Fish:
1 Honey Flame Gourami
4 Ember tetras
8 Otos
2 Pygmy sunfish
4 Red neon blue-eyed rainbowfish
9 Pygmy Cory catfish
9 male Lime Green Endlers
1 Leopard Danio (last of a group)
A few random Amano and Neocaridina shrimp and snails
The fish list will change as I get more tanks set up. I would like to end up with just the gourami, Otos, Rainbowfish (but more of them), and Pygmy Cories.
Well, that’s a start. Thanks for reading!
283 Replies
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I Donated 2026
Rockstar
Well...let's spend more money! I had thought about attending Aquashella - Chicago a few months ago but decided to pass this year. When I was thinking about it, they still didn't have the specific VIP guest list posted. Out of curiosity, I checked today and to my surprise, the man himself, Yusuke Homma, will be presenting the masterclass on Saturday. I can't pass that up when it's only an 8 hour drive. Ticket purchased, room booked. Anyone else attending?
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I Donated 2026
Rockstar
I hadn't seen it mentioned by others that attended Aquashella, but if you hadn't already heard about it or seen it in Aquashella videos, ADA has come out with Amazonia Pro. It's not a replacement for Version 2, but an addition. It is essentially Version 2 on steroids with higher nutrients and of course the negative side effect of potentially higher initial ammonia leaching and, if your not prepared and skilled, more chance of algae. That's even from the mouth of Homma-san himself. The scaping competitors were using it in the competition and AFA was selling 9l bags at the show. They said it would be available on the website within the next couple weeks.
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I have a wonderful stand of erio feather duster that has been algae free for well over a year.
Wnen I firts got it, tufts of bba would form on it on tips and I would just pull them off…
This summer my display tank has been struggling with simmering algae issues.
Still doing weekly 2/3 water changes, keeping nutrient levels and all stable, trimming away degraded leaves…
My erio is in sad shape…
I have tried spraying peroxide on it when doing water changes, laying the mass on a cafeteria tray and spraying on full strength and letting it set for 10 minutes before refilling to no avail.
I gave the fikters a thorough cleaning out, andremoved and reset plant groupings after thoroughly gravel vaccing the bdbs to remove organics…
Iam starting to think giving the erio a good hair cut way down low and letting it send up all new leaves.
Figure I would poll the audience before taking any such action…
Wnen I firts got it, tufts of bba would form on it on tips and I would just pull them off…
This summer my display tank has been struggling with simmering algae issues.
Still doing weekly 2/3 water changes, keeping nutrient levels and all stable, trimming away degraded leaves…
My erio is in sad shape…
I have tried spraying peroxide on it when doing water changes, laying the mass on a cafeteria tray and spraying on full strength and letting it set for 10 minutes before refilling to no avail.
I gave the fikters a thorough cleaning out, andremoved and reset plant groupings after thoroughly gravel vaccing the bdbs to remove organics…
Iam starting to think giving the erio a good hair cut way down low and letting it send up all new leaves.
Figure I would poll the audience before taking any such action…
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I Donated 2026
Expert in Residence
MOTM Winner
I have always liked Rotala florida as plant due to its strongly colored leaves, but realized that I haven't actually aquascaped much with it - meaning to integrate it as part of a layout and not just growing a bunch of it in farm/collector style tank. Using plants in a layout in tighter bunches, and in competition with surrounding plants/hardscape is much harder than growing it farm style in a single patch - it also means be able to shape/trim the bushes to match the overall curves of the layout.
Back in 2016 or so when I first received Rotala florida samples from north america, I could only grow it in sparser bunches. It looked nice in macro photographs but I could not envision using it an bush that would show off well as part of a layout unless I can grow it much denser. In the recent years, there were two main discoveries that I found in my experimentation, the first is that it grows better in moderate GH (5 dGH+) compared to super soft water (say <3dGH), and that it grew better in certain soil mixes (I experimented with different garden soil mixes when engineering the composition of APT Feast). Eventually I integrated some of the soil data into APT Feast's composition, and paired with the higher power lights readily available today, I find that I could finally grow the plant the way I envisioned as part of overall layout. I could prune it dense, as the base stems were healthy enough to sprout dense side shoots after trimming - and the secondary/tertiary shoot tips were as fully colored and sized similar to a primary shoot tip that hasn't been subjected to topping yet.
As a midground stem, it works very well due to its slower growth rate vs other colored stem plants.
Against the deep purple of Rotala florida, I found that Golden white clouds worked quite well. So now they are the main inhabitants of the tank.
Tank this week (25/6/2025)
Tank started out like this:
A week or 2 after initial planting (5/5/2025). I reused old aquasoil from the previous scape, so I planted all plants up front rather than waiting more time for the tank to stabilize, with the idea that I could out-grow any algae issues. Initially wanted to add H. Chai but it really didn't fit the overall color scheme, and the bushes by the side were too invasive to be compatible with having a chai patch I think.
Since it was going to contain Rotala florida, I thought I might as well throw in other high demand troublesome species such as the Red Eriocaulon quinguangulare, blood vomit. I settled on Rotala tulunadensis for the background as I wanted something dense and shapeable.
Tank specs:
60x36x36cm
Filter: Oase biomaster 250, all sponge media
CO2 injected through inline atomizer
Substrate: APT Feast
Water column: APT Sky to raise GH to 5dGH, 2ml of APTe per day.
Light distance. Interestingly, not crazy high PAR - just around 200-250 umols PAR at the substrate level.
Trimming and shaping: Most bushes were shaped by cutting individual outlier shoots one by one. Only Rotala blood red and the Rotala tulunadensis was straight trimmed across the entire top once.
This is how the Rotala tulunadensis looked like after a straight trim on 29/5/2025. About 3 weeks from when the top picture at top of this page was taken. It took the plant a whole week + to show new shoots. It seems straight trimming slows down the plant quite a bit, but allows for a very dense & neat canopy afterwards.
There are some interesting plants stuffed here and there. Some Eriocaulon caulescens? bolivia? that local hobbyists passed on to me. Carved out a patch for Syngonanthus vichada - slow grower, but the couple of babies that came have doubled in size so I think they should be alright. I think I will move them to a larger tank with more space.
Only discovered the color combination with the Golden white clouds when the tank matured, but its one of my favourite fish-plant combinations now. I think that while some of the species are a bit picky about growth conditions, one thing I really like about this tank is that most things have moderate/slow growth rates, which makes maintenance with regards to removing excess growth less tedious.
Elatine triandra is used as a low growing green filler plant - it does this role well. As it does not root very deeply, I can easily cut and pull off excess growth easily. Its the fasting growing plant in the layout that requires frequent removal of excess growth.
Some more close-ups.
I'm trying to replicate concepts of this layout (slowing growing bushes) into my 4ft tank.
Back in 2016 or so when I first received Rotala florida samples from north america, I could only grow it in sparser bunches. It looked nice in macro photographs but I could not envision using it an bush that would show off well as part of a layout unless I can grow it much denser. In the recent years, there were two main discoveries that I found in my experimentation, the first is that it grows better in moderate GH (5 dGH+) compared to super soft water (say <3dGH), and that it grew better in certain soil mixes (I experimented with different garden soil mixes when engineering the composition of APT Feast). Eventually I integrated some of the soil data into APT Feast's composition, and paired with the higher power lights readily available today, I find that I could finally grow the plant the way I envisioned as part of overall layout. I could prune it dense, as the base stems were healthy enough to sprout dense side shoots after trimming - and the secondary/tertiary shoot tips were as fully colored and sized similar to a primary shoot tip that hasn't been subjected to topping yet.
As a midground stem, it works very well due to its slower growth rate vs other colored stem plants.
Against the deep purple of Rotala florida, I found that Golden white clouds worked quite well. So now they are the main inhabitants of the tank.
Tank this week (25/6/2025)
Tank started out like this:
A week or 2 after initial planting (5/5/2025). I reused old aquasoil from the previous scape, so I planted all plants up front rather than waiting more time for the tank to stabilize, with the idea that I could out-grow any algae issues. Initially wanted to add H. Chai but it really didn't fit the overall color scheme, and the bushes by the side were too invasive to be compatible with having a chai patch I think.
Since it was going to contain Rotala florida, I thought I might as well throw in other high demand troublesome species such as the Red Eriocaulon quinguangulare, blood vomit. I settled on Rotala tulunadensis for the background as I wanted something dense and shapeable.
Tank specs:
60x36x36cm
Filter: Oase biomaster 250, all sponge media
CO2 injected through inline atomizer
Substrate: APT Feast
Water column: APT Sky to raise GH to 5dGH, 2ml of APTe per day.
Light distance. Interestingly, not crazy high PAR - just around 200-250 umols PAR at the substrate level.
Trimming and shaping: Most bushes were shaped by cutting individual outlier shoots one by one. Only Rotala blood red and the Rotala tulunadensis was straight trimmed across the entire top once.
This is how the Rotala tulunadensis looked like after a straight trim on 29/5/2025. About 3 weeks from when the top picture at top of this page was taken. It took the plant a whole week + to show new shoots. It seems straight trimming slows down the plant quite a bit, but allows for a very dense & neat canopy afterwards.
There are some interesting plants stuffed here and there. Some Eriocaulon caulescens? bolivia? that local hobbyists passed on to me. Carved out a patch for Syngonanthus vichada - slow grower, but the couple of babies that came have doubled in size so I think they should be alright. I think I will move them to a larger tank with more space.
Only discovered the color combination with the Golden white clouds when the tank matured, but its one of my favourite fish-plant combinations now. I think that while some of the species are a bit picky about growth conditions, one thing I really like about this tank is that most things have moderate/slow growth rates, which makes maintenance with regards to removing excess growth less tedious.
Elatine triandra is used as a low growing green filler plant - it does this role well. As it does not root very deeply, I can easily cut and pull off excess growth easily. Its the fasting growing plant in the layout that requires frequent removal of excess growth.
Some more close-ups.
I'm trying to replicate concepts of this layout (slowing growing bushes) into my 4ft tank.
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I Donated 2026
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Hello Welcome, TheBurn
Welcome to ScapeCrunch, @TheBurn!
We would love to get to know you. Please tell us about yourself. What tank do you have?
We would love to get to know you. Please tell us about yourself. What tank do you have?
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Rockstar
PVAS Fall Fish Shrimp Plant and Dry Goods Auction is this Saturday!
Twice a year PVAS holds an All-Day Auction & Tag Sale: Auctions are free and open to the public.
Registration opens at 9:30 am, Tag Sale opens at 10:00 am, and auction bidding begins at 10:30 am. Sometimes there is a short break for lunch. Raffles usually occur about 1:00 pm and 3:00 pm. Bidding usually wraps up about 4:00 pm but continues until everything is sold.
All buyers and sellers must be registered at
www.MyGroupAuctions.com. 
Sign in to see what's available! 14 pages of auction items are listed so far
Twice a year PVAS holds an All-Day Auction & Tag Sale: Auctions are free and open to the public.
Registration opens at 9:30 am, Tag Sale opens at 10:00 am, and auction bidding begins at 10:30 am. Sometimes there is a short break for lunch. Raffles usually occur about 1:00 pm and 3:00 pm. Bidding usually wraps up about 4:00 pm but continues until everything is sold.
All buyers and sellers must be registered at
www.MyGroupAuctions.com. Sign in to see what's available! 14 pages of auction items are listed so far
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Supporting
I Donated 2026
Journal MrJG - UNS 90L
@Sb1415 Apologies I totally snagged the format of your journal post for this so thank you!
Many moons ago I was an active and contributing member on plantedtank.net, I think at one point I had around 14 scaped tanks going before burnout and life changes. Instead of weekends consisting of maintenance I transitioned to camping/boating and life has been great. I’ve always missed it. After downsizing and making a move to a new home I kept only a small 12x12 cube tank that started life as an amateur iwagumi layout, Seiryu and hairgrass only. I put it on the nightstand beside my bed and added some of my favorite Anubias and crypts from taken down tanks. Its been sitting there running for 5-6 years now, low light, top offs only w tap. Maintenance when it got out of control. Super old aquasoil now flattened out to a thick 4-5 inch thick layer in a perfect line front to back.
In Aug/Sept 25 had a bit of a health issue that kept me in bed for several weeks recovering while I looked at this sad little cube, mostly healthy but not truly thriving. No fertilizer being added for years, GDA covered anubias leaves that also were many years old and I thought to myself I should make this better… that was the tipping point. OK I’ll do a deep clean on the substrate, get some stems to throw in there, maybe get a carpet going. Tissue cultures/stems ordered and I got to work. No more top offs, 10% water changes instead. TDS ~900 when I started. Ultimately everything melted back and didn’t grow well. I’d been keeping the lighting so dim all these years to maintain just the crypts/epiphytes without it turning into a mess and I was ok with it again. That was the spark.
I decided I wanted to build out a new tank, most of my old hardware/tanks I had let go of in a bulk way so I was going to have to start new with everything sans some 5 gallon buckets of Amazonia that I’d placed in the basement of the new house.. Phoenix rising from the ashes? Most likely more like algae emerging from the depths. I still consider myself a beginner and maybe amateur at best so yeah…
So I got to work again reading, researching, what’s new, what has changed since I’ve been out of the loop for so long? Ooo dark start that sounds much better, in line CO2 diffusers cool! CO2 reactors, pretty awesome sounding, 2Hr aquarist read every article, and I’m back in baby!
Tank inspiration
None really hence no name, it fit right into a slot to occupy my mind from a not so great situation that I was in and I’m ok with that. Ultimately I’d like this to be a low-mid energy tank that can have minimal amounts of weekly maintenance while still looking the part. I’d prefer to keep it as simple as possible while still having some high tech bits. Get all the equipment out of the tank, co2, low-mid level lighting, minimal/simple fertilization. I got busy ordering equipment and started brainstorming layouts and what hardscape materials I could find. Instagram was my friend for a while, seems that everything that kept grabbing my attention were island style layouts with a very thin layer of sand surrounding. I’ve also always been partial to big chonky pieces of driftwood, I thought to go the manzanita route but wysiwyg pieces were fetching stupid prices. I ran across this ironwood in a listing and couldn’t let it go. The deep lines in the bark were just calling me so I quick snap ordered it before my brain could process dimensions, I knew it would fit but didn’t fully visualise how much it would ultimately limit the layout. I wanted to stay mostly inert with stone and eventually/begrudgingly ordered the tumbled lava stone with the intention of keeping it to a island/river layout style and mimicking some of my found instagram muse tanks. It will mostly likely end up more nature style although the start will be more Willy Wonka than anything. Thanks @Burr740 for that, I shopped like a kid in a candy store.
Equipment
Tank
Many moons ago I was an active and contributing member on plantedtank.net, I think at one point I had around 14 scaped tanks going before burnout and life changes. Instead of weekends consisting of maintenance I transitioned to camping/boating and life has been great. I’ve always missed it. After downsizing and making a move to a new home I kept only a small 12x12 cube tank that started life as an amateur iwagumi layout, Seiryu and hairgrass only. I put it on the nightstand beside my bed and added some of my favorite Anubias and crypts from taken down tanks. Its been sitting there running for 5-6 years now, low light, top offs only w tap. Maintenance when it got out of control. Super old aquasoil now flattened out to a thick 4-5 inch thick layer in a perfect line front to back.
In Aug/Sept 25 had a bit of a health issue that kept me in bed for several weeks recovering while I looked at this sad little cube, mostly healthy but not truly thriving. No fertilizer being added for years, GDA covered anubias leaves that also were many years old and I thought to myself I should make this better… that was the tipping point. OK I’ll do a deep clean on the substrate, get some stems to throw in there, maybe get a carpet going. Tissue cultures/stems ordered and I got to work. No more top offs, 10% water changes instead. TDS ~900 when I started. Ultimately everything melted back and didn’t grow well. I’d been keeping the lighting so dim all these years to maintain just the crypts/epiphytes without it turning into a mess and I was ok with it again. That was the spark.
I decided I wanted to build out a new tank, most of my old hardware/tanks I had let go of in a bulk way so I was going to have to start new with everything sans some 5 gallon buckets of Amazonia that I’d placed in the basement of the new house.. Phoenix rising from the ashes? Most likely more like algae emerging from the depths. I still consider myself a beginner and maybe amateur at best so yeah…
So I got to work again reading, researching, what’s new, what has changed since I’ve been out of the loop for so long? Ooo dark start that sounds much better, in line CO2 diffusers cool! CO2 reactors, pretty awesome sounding, 2Hr aquarist read every article, and I’m back in baby!
Tank inspiration
None really hence no name, it fit right into a slot to occupy my mind from a not so great situation that I was in and I’m ok with that. Ultimately I’d like this to be a low-mid energy tank that can have minimal amounts of weekly maintenance while still looking the part. I’d prefer to keep it as simple as possible while still having some high tech bits. Get all the equipment out of the tank, co2, low-mid level lighting, minimal/simple fertilization. I got busy ordering equipment and started brainstorming layouts and what hardscape materials I could find. Instagram was my friend for a while, seems that everything that kept grabbing my attention were island style layouts with a very thin layer of sand surrounding. I’ve also always been partial to big chonky pieces of driftwood, I thought to go the manzanita route but wysiwyg pieces were fetching stupid prices. I ran across this ironwood in a listing and couldn’t let it go. The deep lines in the bark were just calling me so I quick snap ordered it before my brain could process dimensions, I knew it would fit but didn’t fully visualise how much it would ultimately limit the layout. I wanted to stay mostly inert with stone and eventually/begrudgingly ordered the tumbled lava stone with the intention of keeping it to a island/river layout style and mimicking some of my found instagram muse tanks. It will mostly likely end up more nature style although the start will be more Willy Wonka than anything. Thanks @Burr740 for that, I shopped like a kid in a candy store.
Equipment
Tank
- UNS 90L
- 90 cm x 30 cm x 30 cm
- 79 liters or 21 gallons by volume, 62.5 liters or 16.5 gallons actual w hardscape
- Oase Thermo 200
- Replaced the charcoal media with more ceramic from Oase
- Replaced w Fzone stainless steel -Fzone glass Lily w skimmer ⅝”
- Replaced tubing with UNS pro tubing ⅝”
- Fzone Quick release ⅝” so Lily pipes can be cleaned without having to reprime filter
- Gla inline atomizer - replaced Fzone Co2 inline diffuser ⅝”
- GLA dual stage - replaced Fzone pro series dual stage regulator w/ 5lb tank
- Timed on 3 hours before lights on, off 1 hour before lights off
- Using distilled by gallon, remineralized with salty shrimp GH targeting GH around 4-5
- Hoping for 0-1 KH
- Dark start cycled with prime dechlorinated Tap and APT Start
- 80% old used ADA Amazonia v1, small bits sifted and bagged to create slight slope
- 2HR Feast topped to around 2 inches
- UNS Bora sand
- UNS Kona pebbles
- Fzone Bright 90 - 90CM
- Before hardscape made rough par map using photone with diffuser iPhone 15 Pro
- At 100% top 404, mid 219, base 127 PAR
- At 50% top 190, mid 110, base 62 PAR
- Will be starting tank with 45-50% lighting intensity
- Timed at 3pm-9pm photoperiod with 60 minute ramps
- Current Colorcast LED strip w/frosted background
- Timed scenes for dawn (orange 1 HR during pre-ramp) /daylight (green during ON cycle) /sunset (red 1 HR during post-ramp) /night (indigo 1 HR after lights out)
- Arizona Ironwood
- Black tumbled lava stone
- APT 1 and 3 dosed at recommended levels per calculator
- APT Jazz - in 3-4 months as Feast gives out
- Trying to keep it simple with fertilization to start
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Rockstar
Journal 62G AIO Dirty Soil Lagoon
Well I’m done talking about it, it’s time to get this journal started.
I have been really out of it the last year or so in terms of maintaining my own tank, mainly out of frustration with time constraints and inconsistency with dosing etc. However, I have now acquired a dream tank, rimless and with low iron glass like I’ve always wanted. While I loved having a sump and prided myself on putting it together, I’m past that desire. The AIO allows the same benefits with hiding equipment, and overall easier maintenance without climbing in and out of cabinets. Now onto the details of this build.
Tank: Planet Aquariums Tideline 62 Gallon AIO Lagoon
Filtration: (2) 250gph pumps on either side of the tank with center overflow into socks (I’m going to punch holes in the socks for now and stuff with polyfill, reviews state the socks clog way too quickly and there is no replacement sock as the insert is not the common round style). The baffles will be stuffed with the poret foam I have already from my sump for extra mechanical/biological.
Substrate: The bottom layer will comprise of bagged pond soil/peat/earthworm castings/ STS. This will be a thin layer and will mainly act as filler to raise up the cap of APT Feast. This is similar to a substrate setup I did when I first started back up in 2020, And that tank did very well. While capping with sand and relying on the dirt to feed the stems worked well, it did require a little more effort on my end with dosing. I don’t trust myself to be as diligent as some members on here are with their inert subs, so I’m taking the mulligan and using aquasoil as a cap, hence, “dirty soil.” This will be another island style layout, and the surrounding substrate will be comprised of Caribsea Carolina Creek Sand.
Hardscape: River rock (local hardscape center sourced) and malaysian driftwood. I have recently acquired another large piece of wood and I’m sourcing new stone this week, as what I have just isn’t meshing with my current vision for the tank.
Plants: …. I have not solidified my vision of what this scape will look like just yet as I haven’t been able to setup the hardscape to outline the island. The plan is to use a good amount of colorful stems, epiphytes, and potentially moss.
Lighting: I will be ordering the Week Aqua Z400 this week and am excited to test it out.
That’s all for now, more pictures and details to come. I should hopefully have the hardscape setup by the end of this coming week after acquiring more stone and wood.
CO2: Almost forgot, for Co2 injection I have made a DIY Yugang with a locking food storage container. It will be stored in the cabinet and the hook will feed into the return pump chamber on the right. I initially was bummed that I had to sacrifice storage to fit a 5lb CO2 tank under the stand, which also meant getting rid of of the 20lb tank I’ve only been having to fill twice a year. @GreggZ Will appreciate this, my awesome father in law suggested that I hide the co2 tank in the pantry closet which is directly behind that wall and just drill a hole for the co2 line. Since my father in laws word is pure gold in my wife’s eyes, that suggestion was approved! He’s just as much my dad too so I appreciated him supporting the project
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Staff member
I Donated 2026
Founding Member
Hello Welcome, Rachel Smith
Welcome to ScapeCrunch, @Rachel Smith!
We would love to get to know you. Please tell us about yourself. What tank do you have?
We would love to get to know you. Please tell us about yourself. What tank do you have?
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